Comemorando o segundo ano da Associação Brasileira de Footbag, apresentamos uma entrevista histórica com uma das lendas do footbag, Peter Irish. Campeão no freestyle por cinco vezes (91, 92, 93, 95 e 97), Peter é um remanescente do footbag roots, tendo completado 20 anos de participação em torneios de freestyle. Prestes a se "aposentar", ele fala um pouco da sua trajetória e o que espera para o futuro.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Peter Irish, are you Irish?

Actually yes, I am. My mother's father is straight from Ireland. He came to New York City from Ireland in the 1950's. The house that he was born in is still standing over there. Some day I'll go see it. The name Irish, however, actually comes from England, and my father's ancestors. So I have both the name and the heritage, but I've still never been to Ireland. The 2006 European Juggling festival is being held in Ireland, and that would be a perfect time to go, but it looks like I won't be able to make that event unfortunately.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: As we know, you got your first footbag in 1982 but you only started to practice hard in 1985. Why?

My dad gave me a footbag in 1982 because back then I was playing soccer (football), but about the same time I had discovered skateboarding, and was completely addicted. I would skate any chance I got, every day, even in the snow. Around 1982 the skateboard scene in my hometown of Va. Beach, Virginia, was huge. The city had built 5 huge halfpipes around the city and every year they held a big pro tournament. All the top pros of the time would show up---Lance Mountain, Steve Caballero, Mike McGill, Gator Rogowski, Christian Hosoi, on and on. Tony Hawk was there when he was a little kid around 14 years old, and even then he was the best.

I used to watch Rodney Mullin do "freestyle" on a skinny little board doing routines on the street, stuff which evolved into the basis of all the street skating stuff being done today, kick flips and all that. These routines were very similar to footbag freestyle routines, just in a different context. At the time my main interest was skating vertical ramps, or halfpipes. I practiced this with all my energy and I was pretty good. I didn't hold back. After my 2nd broken arm I needed something a little easier on the body though, so while my arm was still broken in a cast I started playing "hacky sack" again, thanks to the suggestion of my good friend Billy Owens.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Your first championship was in 1986 (East Coast Championships). Can you make a scenario of the events at that time?

I had never been to any footbag event. I was a young kid and didn't know anyone. I had been kicking lots of consecutive kicks and by then could do around 6,000. I had a few freestyle tricks I made up on my own, but had never seen any real footbag. I thought I was a badass and would show up and spank everyone. I was mistaken. Most of the top pros-mostly net players of the time were at this event. The World Footbag Association was there and hall of famers like Jeff "Animal" Johnson, Chris "Gator" Routh, Peter Shunny and Jim Caveny were at this tournament, but the best thing was seeing national freestyle champion Andy Linder.

The second I saw him do a double around the world kick-not stall-I realized that I sucked at footbag, but that I was going to get good no matter how much practice it took. The other significant event at this tournament was meeting my future freestyle partner Eric Wulff. The level of freestyle at this event was overall low, except for Linder, Wulff, and east coast freestyle legends Mark Cicetti, Dale Crawford, and Peter Chandler.

There were tricks and stalls being done but no shredding, just lots of flyers and kicking the bag around. Nonetheless, that weekend I became obsessed with footbag and I haven't stopped yet. This summer at East Coast Championships 2006 will be the anniversary of 20 years of competition in footbag for me so I think I'll do my last routine there and seal it up.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: How were the "good old days" of the sport?

Quite a bit different. In these days nobody played footbag outside the United States except for Allan Peterson and Remi Kristenson from Denmark and maybe a few Canadians. It was a very small hardcore group of people who would be at the world championships. It was held in Colorado every year for nearly 10 years straight. The same people year after year showed up, which made for very strong friendships and relationships between players.

There was no basic division between net players and freestylers because almost everyone played both games. Freestyle was very underground and there was no such thing as "shred" yet. Net was a much bigger event back then. Everyone at worlds stayed in the same hotel-the "Holidome"-which made for a huge week- long party. Overall it was a much smaller, tighter community. At one time I could say that I knew every person in the world doing even the basic freestyle tricks.now at any given event I don't know about 80% of the
freestylers there.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Was/Is there any dispute between East and West Coast? Which side is better?

There is no dispute between East and West coast players in the US. In the early 1990's there was a little friendly rivalry but it was all in good fun and never serious. Neither coast is better. Both coasts now have great scenes going. There are some differences, though. On the west coast it seems like the scenes are broken up into regions or states. For example
there are particularly strong scenes in Portland Oregon, San Diego California, and Seattle Washington, and it seems like these scenes mostly keep to themselves.

This may be because there are not as many footbag tournaments as there used to be on the west coast. On the east coast all the little scenes mesh together, so there is more of an "East Coast scene" rather than a Rochester New York scene or a Summerville, New Jersey scene. It seems like these days there are quite a bit more events on the east coast so maybe that promotes more of an overall coastal scene. There are some good scenes in the Midwest as well and all throughout Canada with some great players, too.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: You have inspired many new players around the world. Who inspired you?

Kenny Shults and Rippin Rick Reese were and are my 2 biggest influences and favorites. Kenny was the leader of footbag and I have always looked up to him and still do to this day. He is the all time greatest overall player--by far--in terms of the combination of net and freestyle. No one has even come close to his accomplishments in both arenas, and no one probably ever will. In the early days and throughout the 1990's Rippin Rick Reese was the most hardcore player anywhere. In 1989, Rippin told me "you've got potential." Those 3 words were all it took to fuel hours of practice daily. The next year I came back greatly improved.

At this point Rippin took me aside at worlds and in 2 hours completely opened up my game; so much so that the next year I came back and won the world singles freestyle championship. Still though, Rippin was the best for many, many years. Even when I won worlds in the early 90's Rippin was the best in circles. Around 1992-93 his abilities were almost super-human, literally. All I could do was try to catch up with or equal his level of play. I think I finally accomplished this in 1995, which was my first real peak of playing. I would love to be able to take Rippin at his peak and transport him and his abilities to nowadays, and throw him in with Vasek and see what happens. It would be interesting. Kenny Shults and Rick Reese created the style of footbag that we play today and are still influences and great friends in my life.

Andy Linder, who was national freestyle champion in 1986, was at my first tournament, and when I saw him do a double around the world kick, I knew instantly that I wanted to be good at footbag. Old school freestylers, who were at the top when I first came into the game--people like Jack Schoolcraft, Gary Lautt, and Dennis Ross, were big influences. East Coast freestylers who were playing when I just came in had an influence; mainly the Ocean County Clippers: Eric Wulff, Ed Orlando and Russ Thomas. Those guys were doing freestyle when I showed up at my first tournament; they were my age, and we quickly became friends. I learned a lot from Eric Wulff in the beginning, and we eventually became team freestyle partners, winning team freestyle at the world championships by 1996. By the way, Eric Wulff was the only player I ever actually feared in singles competition. At worlds, when he did his routine, I would leave the building. I didn't want to watch or be anywhere near him.

He was intense and incredibly focused. The amazing thing is that he only won one singles freestyle title. Still he has to be considered among the very best to ever play freestyle. He is one of the only players, if not the only player, who can say he competed against, but was never beaten by, Vasek in a tournament. Early on when I began to get good I would play with people like Jay Moldenhauer and Greg Nelson and we would push each other to improve. I played with people like Tuan and Tu Vu, Tim Kelly, Ahren German, Sunil Jani regularly over the years and they all inspired me to play harder. Those 5 guys are some of my all time favorites. Nowadays people like Jim Penske, Lon Smith, Jordan Moir, Vasek, Honza, Felix, Scott Bevier, Jon Schnieder, and many others are very inspirational and make me want to keep pushing my game and try to keep up.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: What came first in your life: footbag or juggling?

Footbagging came first for me, but not long after that I learned how to juggle balls with my hands as well. Almost immediately I realized that some day I could combine the two to create something new, which I have finally done, and that has really become my main focus of object manipulation nowadays. This is stuff like juggling 3 balls with my hands and 3 balls with my feet at the same time, and plenty of other combinations. This new stuff is almost up to my standards and I've been practicing it a lot and performing it a little bit. Soon I'll put it out there after a little more work, and maybe I'll release a video. I'm slowly working on a website which should be up in the near future. I have applied for a government arts grant which will hopefully come through in the spring or summer, and that would help. As of now, this material will stay as a live experience so if you want to see it, come see one of my shows.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: How do you consider yourself: a footbagger or a juggler?

I don't limit myself to any one thing. I do a lot in my life that I put near the same level as juggling and footbag. Of course I am both of those, but I do a lot more than just those two things. At one time I would have called myself a footbagger, and at one time I would have called myself a juggler, but now I try not to label myself anything.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Besides that, what else do you practice? Is there any other "exotic thing"?

I am a professional acupuncturist and am involved in healing and body-work. I study energy, meditation and metaphysics. I do tai chi, qigong, and yoga at different times. I do a lot of artwork, collage, drawing, and painting. I am a writer and am working on 2 books as long term projects. I am a performer-I do an entire solo show in which I don't kick a footbag in at all. I have been fairly serious about playing chess. I am getting into playing poker. I love games and arts of all kinds. I am interested in almost too many subjects, and the thing is that if I like something enough, I want to be good at it.

Nowadays I am interested in developing my body and mind to peak conditioning so that I can help people and express myself creatively the best I can regardless of the medium. My friend, world juggling champion Dan Holzman, calls this the "Renaissance man training program", and I think that describes it well. My main interest in life is human potential: how far can human beings develop and how can I break through limitations that I have placed on myself and that have been ingrained in me through society's conditioning. It is a hard, but worthwhile interest. I realized along time ago that what I have been taught in school, through the media and "official" sources is mostly false, or at least comes from a very limited place, so I have taken time to develop an alternate world view that allows greater possibilities for my development and understanding.

It is a constant learning process and I am a life long student. So that is my interest and I practice way too many things to really label myself at all. Once you label yourself you limit yourself, so I like to try and stay free and fluid whenever possible. One limit that I put on myself, though, is to never self-serve in a footbag circle. This was how it was in the beginning and I will continue the tradition as long as I play. It's not the most popular view these days, and people can do what they want. I'm not telling anyone how to play. That's just my personal standard.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: How about you're playing level? Is it still growing?

Amazingly it is, but after 20 years it is growing in different directions. Last year I realized that my knees don't like double dex, some symposium or whirling tricks any more. This game can be hard on the body, especially in the long term and even in the short term, but if you play intelligently you can play for a long time with minimal damage to the body. So I've had to change many aspects of my game lately to work with long term playing. It's good for me because there are so many different directions you can go with footbag that don't involve super high impact on the body.

Whirl stuff was a big part of my game for years-ps whirls, stepping ps whirl, spinning whirls, blurry whirls; I used to do that all the time. Now I'm focusing on the more esoteric aspects of my game-atomic backspinning stuff, gogo sets, double spinning, blurry ducking, and more stylish stuff. Plus I've always been about long combos, so that fits right in with that style. So it's cool to try and change my game up and keep learning new things even after 20 years. What amazes me is that I am still inspired to try and improve my freestyle after so long.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Do you think the misconception about footbaggers in US is over? Have you had any "bad experience" playing around?

No, the misconception about footbaggers in the US is not really over. Most people in the US know footbag as "Hacky Sack". It was a pretty big fad back in the 1980's. At one point, everyone had a hacky sack. It was big enough that almost everyone in the US knows what a "hacky sack" is. But around this time it got associated with hippies and drugs so in some people's mind the association still stands. Most people are not aware of the level that it has grown to, and still think of it as a bunch of people standing around kicking a beanbag in a circle. One thing I've found though, is that you can change that misconception to those people by showing them real shred.

I think the association with footbag could be changed in the US with enough exposure. That'd be nice if that misconception changed, and I think it has a good chance. As for bad experiences, no. All my experience with playing footbag in public has been good. People are amazed by it in general I think and you can use it to create great experiences for yourself and others. You can meet people you would never meet, do things you wouldn't be able to do with out footbag, go places you would never go. I've had some great experiences that I never would have dreamed of without footbag.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: You are one of the founders of Big Add Posse. Could you explain what that is?

Originally the Big Add Posse was 7 freestyle players who were friends who were pursuing a style of footbag play that was invented and being developed by Kenny Shults and being fueled by Rick Reese. This concept of the time was new, and it was to link tricks together into combinations; to eliminate kicks between tricks. This was the beginning of modern shred as we know it. This style began to be seriously explored in the early 1990's. The original 7 were the ones who were really pushing the concept. The early posse established the tiltless and then guiltless standards following Kenny's lead. Most other footbag players at the time did not appreciate this style.

The style of "freestyle" back then was flowing play with lots of kicks and flyers. A lot of established footbaggers looked down upon the style we were developing. Of course, at that time in footbag history Net was the big game, much more promoted and focused upon at the world championships and by the World Footbag Association. Freestyle was not taken very seriously. The concept of shred at that time was extremely underground. The original 7 players were Kenny Shults, Rick Reese, myself, Joey Scaffer, Tim Kelly, Dennis Jones, Dimitri Kovorus. In the beginning the Big Add Posse was going to remain just these 7 friends, but eventually there was interest by other players to join. Soon players like Eric Wulff, Scott Davidson, Greg Nelson, Tuan Vu, ect. became posse members and it continues to this day. Players who have pushed themselves the hardest and have shown a high level of technical and creative ability are invited into the Big Add Posse each year at the world championships.

The induction process is done by voting by all present members. There are some great players who will probably never have the chance to be inducted due to circumstances, such as not being able to attend Worlds. This is unfortunate, but the players who make the extra effort and somehow make it there have a chance for induction if they so desire. Lately there has been some controversy regarding the Big Add Posse by players who for one reason or another were not invited in, or players who see it as an elite organization. This is understandable, but elitism is not the goal of the BAP. It is about recognizing hard work. Personally, I think that people shouldn't make entry to the Big Add Posse any kind of priority or a reason to play. There are players now, such as Ken Somolinos, who are invited to the BAP and decline entry. I think this is great and I highly respect that. People should play for themselves and the love of the game rather than for their ego or entrance into some organization. Nevertheless, in the spirit of Kenny and Rick's original vision, the Big Add Posse continues to induct members. The Big Add Posse now has a website where players can learn more if they want to.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: In Brazil, is common to see homeless children at traffic lights juggling for money. Some of them learned to juggle through social projects that had as a purpose "take them out of the streets".... well, a little contradictory. What do you thing about that? Would you give them money?

Teaching kids juggling is never a bad thing. If the child is homeless, it's better that he or she has some skill, anything--even juggling. As a street performer myself, I would have to pay the kid for juggling. Probably a tourist would be quicker to pay the kid if he was juggling, too. I make it a habit to pay any street performer that impresses me. And if it's a kid, they don't have to do much to impress me. Just the fact that they can juggle is impressive.In the United States, if someone is juggling on the street, they are most likely performing an entire show at a specific spot used by performers in a city near a tourist area.

It is possible to make decent money if you are good. I made my living in this way for many years in San Francisco. There may be a few exceptions, but most performers juggling on the street are not homeless, and they are certainly not homeless kids. That is a different situation that we are not familiar with here, so I don't know if that is a viable way for these kids to make money or not. I would hope that it at least made them enough to eat. If that's the case, then the social projects are helping. If not, then maybe the social projects should be teaching other skills.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: As we can see nowadays, the level of the sport increased a lot. How do you evaluate this progress?

The first reason is that now shred has evolved to a point where the path is all laid out for new players entering the game. Although there is still room for innovation, many of the concepts and tricks have been invented and are being done by many players. The standard for beginners is much higher. It's all out there. Anyone around the world now has access to the tools to learn the game. Another reason is that players are getting into the sport at a much younger age, and when you are young you have all the time in the world to play, and your body can take hours of abuse and not be affected.

I think the main reason for the growth of footbag worldwide is the fact that it is all available on the internet now, and we can thank Steve Goldberg for that. He was the first to put it out there, he has spent countless years of his time and thousands of dollars of his own money promoting this game, and he has done it for us out of love for the sport. He developed the International Footbag Players Association, which is the main resource for footbag worldwide. I think he is underappreciated and deserves more recognition than he gets. We can also thank those people who devote their resources to supporting the game and tournaments in the spirit of service; people like Daryl Genz and Freedom Footbags who supports each and every event and spreads countless footbags throughout the world. His bags are the best to learn with and he keeps them cheap and affordable. We can also thank those people working at the grassroots level holding events and footbag tournaments. However big or small the event is, these people make no money and in some cases even lose money in order to strengthen the community. Anyone who has ever run an event deserves respect, these people know who they are and are too numerous to mention.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Has this progress affected the spirit of the good old days?

For the most part, no. The footbag community is still small enough that it feels like a bunch of good friends, and in competition there are still no hard feelings and everyone is supportive. There is still a lot of good energy here. Most of the people attracted to this game are great people. People's egos have not gotten huge. With the growth of the game some little bits of negativity have entered here and there. This is normal and to be expected, but there is still hardly any negativity involved thankfully, and the little bits that are there have had no real effect on the spirit of the community. As the sport grows it will be interesting to see if this spirit remains, and it is my great hope that it does, because for me after playing for 20 years and winning world championships the best thing I have gained from footbag is great friends and a supportive community.

There is still no money to be made and no big fame to be had, so if you are in it for that you have come to the wrong place. Knowing what I know now if I had to choose between the community aspect or lots of money and fame I would choose the community. Fame and money are lost very quickly but I have made relationships that will last the rest of my life. So I am glad to have been in the game when I was there. It would be nice to see players some day make money with this game, but hopefully either way they can discover some of the aspects that I have discovered here, and hopefully the community spirit remains.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: And what's the next step? Footbag mixed with Olympic-gymnastic? Play it in a swimming pool?

It will be interesting to see. I think there are other directions for the game to go. Oddly enough, some of them are shown here, in this little online cartoon. Of course, most of these tricks are impossible, but this cartoon hints at some other directions. I think there are people out there who could do some of this stuff, such as some Chinese Acrobats and shuttlecock masters, or some great gymnasts or martial artists who have been trained at a very young age and have great foot skills to begin with. As footbag continues to grow world wide I think we may see other directions. With big exposure in some countries that play soccer (football) with great skill, such as Brazil and other South American countries, and some countries in Asia, and other places, there are big possibilities to take it to a whole other level, far beyond what we are doing now.

I mentioned Shuttlecock players, and in places like China they already play freestyle, but with a different object and in a different style. I recently traveled throughout Vietnam and Cambodia. The national sport of Vietnam is Shuttlecock-called "Da Cau" in Vietnamese. I played with some amazing players who were doing crazy tricks that were different than what we do. Some of these players were very old men who played with the energy and ability of young men. Everywhere I went I saw little kids playing shuttlecock. It was normal to see a little girl in bare feet doing 8-10 kicks using both legs, no problem. Of course, at the highest level they take Shuttlecock very seriously there, and may not want the influence of footbag. Tuan Vu tells a very interesting story about visiting a national training school for Shuttlecock in Vietnam and showing the students footbag freestyle. The students were immediately interested and impressed. Tuan was quickly told by the teachers to stop, and not to show this to the students. They didn't want anything interfering with the style of shuttlecock they were learning. This is their national sport and they are the current world champions in this game, so they wanted total focus on Shuttlecock.

But you can imagine the potential for footbag freestyle in the hands of kids with this kind of skill. Nonetheless, Tuan and I have made an agreement to take footbag to Vietnam. He, of course, is Vietnamese, and my wife Lonn is Vietnamese, so we both have connections there and will be returning there in the future and teaching as many kids as possible the next time around. So there is great potential for the game out there. We'll just have to wait and see who picks it up and what they do. As far as current players who are exploring different styles of play, the first player off the top of my mind is Jonathan Schneider, who has his own completely different style and vocabulary of tricks that almost no one else does. Another player is Allan Hagget, with his street trials style, doing tricks up and down steps and picnic tables, very original and different. Most recently Jordan Moir has been inventing new directions with great speed, it seems like everytime you see him he has something new. So even now there are people going different places with freestyle. I think the time is soon when freestyle is ready to go beyond the dominant shredding style we practice now. I'm excited to watch the progress.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Is footbag a lifestyle (like surfing) or its way too far? How would you define it?

Footbag has definitely become a lifestyle. To get really good you have to devote so much time and energy to the game. In some aspects you have to devote your life or a great portion to it to footbag to reach your potential. You have to eat, sleep and think footbag, and there are many people doing that now. There is a complete vocabulary and language associated with the sport. There is now a worldwide tournament circuit and organizations. There are identifiable players with different styles who people look up to. There are clubs springing up everywhere. There are websites devoted to footbag. Footbag now has all the pre-requisites of a lifestyle. I think most people would agree, particularly the players that devote the time, that footbag is their lifestyle.

FOOTBAG BRASIL: Who gave you the nickname "The Executioner"? Who did you kill?

Kenny Shults gave me the name "Executioner" for my execution of tricks and dropless routines. I have killed a fair amount of pairs of Rod Lavers and a few footbags, but no humans and I would hope that most people consider me a fairly friendly guy. :) Thanks for a nice and interesting interview.

SEE ALSO
Interview with Jorden Moir: "who is this guy?"

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